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David Gilmour synth effect, circa 1972

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    #1

    David Gilmour synth effect, circa 1972

    One thing that has bugged me since I first got a VHS copy of Pompeii 20+ years ago... what is the weird synth effect David is seen using in the studio footage?

    https://youtu.be/0hz9c0T6lZY?si=kYuHtzOvj0f0fxyS

    From 3:50 onwards. He is using his Bill Lewis guitar with no obvious outboard/hexaphonic pickup. Somehow his guitar is providing an accurate control voltage to two oscillators, tuned a fifth apart. There is a slowly sweeping resonant filter in the signal as well. This seems quite advanced tech for 1972; especially using a regular guitar with no special pickup or other circuitry.

    I don't hear this effect on the DSOTM album, any subsequent album or live show. It could just be the VCS-3 synth(s) in action, but passive guitars put out small voltages and I've never read or heard of a VCS-3 being driven from a guitar. Bands like Hawkwind and King Crimson (check out Groon on the album Earthbound) processed audio with VCS-3 synths downstream (after the amps, speakers etc) but didn't directly control the oscillators with control voltages from regular instruments.

    Any ideas?
    Tags: None
    • Likes 3
    #2
    Probably David messing with the feedback settings on his Univibe.

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      #3
      Originally posted by gorilla1973 View Post
      Probably David messing with the feedback settings on his Univibe.
      A univibe doesn't convert guitar signal into a pure waveform and add any harmony or different pitch to it. They can provide a bit of basic pitch shifting, but it is similar to the tremolo sound of old Magnatone amps rather than a second note consistently tracking at a fixed pitch above the reference note.

      Comment

        #4
        Alanko I often thought the same thing, that they were using EMS synths like the VCS3 and or the Synthi A like how Roxy Music would do live with Phil Manzanera. I also think it may be the Synthi Hi-Fli that David had onstage during 72-73. I know there have been potential rumors that the infamous warble sound effect for the solo on Any Colour was the Hi-Fli but I am not sure because I think it’s confirmed to be a Univibe (?). I’ve done a bunch of research on this but various websites and books can be conflicting.
        Favorite Bootlegs: Santa Monica - 5/1/1970, Brescia - 06/19/1971, Los Angeles - 09/22/1972, Boston - 06/18/1975, NYC - 07/02/1977
        • Likes 1

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          #5
          Originally posted by TheGreenStrat View Post
          Alanko I often thought the same thing, that they were using EMS synths like the VCS3 and or the Synthi A like how Roxy Music would do live with Phil Manzanera. I also think it may be the Synthi Hi-Fli that David had onstage during 72-73. I know there have been potential rumors that the infamous warble sound effect for the solo on Any Colour was the Hi-Fli but I am not sure because I think it’s confirmed to be a Univibe (?). I’ve done a bunch of research on this but various websites and books can be conflicting.
          I think ACYL is the Hi-Fli. It has a bit too much envelope shaping and resonance to be a univibe, to my ears. More vowel-like than the soft 'ying ying' of a univibe. I used to think it was a dimed Leslie cabinet but, even under duress, they have a specific growl to them.

          The Hi-Fli was a multi effects processor almost before the idea had been dreamt up. I think the effects in it derive from routing the guitar signal through fuzz circuits, putting in preset EQ curves, synth like filter circuits and basic analog sub-octave effects. I don't think there was an option to convert incoming guitar signal to a CV, rather just sculpting of the basic guitar signal itself.

          Pink Floyd and/or Abbey Road could have been given a prototype guitar-to-CV expansion module for a VCS-3, I suppose. The Bill Lewis guitar maybe has quite hot pickups as well, giving enough signal.

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by Alanko View Post

            I think ACYL is the Hi-Fli. It has a bit too much envelope shaping and resonance to be a univibe, to my ears. More vowel-like than the soft 'ying ying' of a univibe. I used to think it was a dimed Leslie cabinet but, even under duress, they have a specific growl to them.

            The Hi-Fli was a multi effects processor almost before the idea had been dreamt up. I think the effects in it derive from routing the guitar signal through fuzz circuits, putting in preset EQ curves, synth like filter circuits and basic analog sub-octave effects. I don't think there was an option to convert incoming guitar signal to a CV, rather just sculpting of the basic guitar signal itself.

            Pink Floyd and/or Abbey Road could have been given a prototype guitar-to-CV expansion module for a VCS-3, I suppose. The Bill Lewis guitar maybe has quite hot pickups as well, giving enough signal.
            Totally agree, I’ve heard the ACYL rumors using the Hi-Fli. I know live around ‘72 Gilmour used the Leslie/Yamaha live during the rhythm section and later on in the 70’s during the big solo section he overdrove it.

            I believe you’re correct re: the Hi-Fli’s circuitry and flow. That is true, maybe they just had access to prototype stuffs or maybe just routed the signal out from the Hi-Fli via DI or something and the other output went through the amp. Hmm…. All interesting points!
            Favorite Bootlegs: Santa Monica - 5/1/1970, Brescia - 06/19/1971, Los Angeles - 09/22/1972, Boston - 06/18/1975, NYC - 07/02/1977
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              #7
              This short clip shows the sounds you can't by processing guitar audio with a VCS-3. I can get similar sounds by routing a guitar into my Moog Rogue synth, but it is less fun than using a joystick!

              https://youtube.com/shorts/Yhazpkihz...fP5Q-dqM8vPyVS



              • Likes 2

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                #8
                Hi all
                I think that sound doesn't come from the hi-fli at all... but from the VCS3 or the Sinthy AKS... if you notice in the video in the background you can see an EMS Pitch-to-Voltage Converter which is used precisely to convert the sound of a guitar into a signal to control the synths...​

                hi-fli... it's just a series of guitar effects... pre, phaser, distortion, modulation... but definitely not that sound you hear in the video​
                • Likes 2

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by zardoz View Post
                  Hi all
                  I think that sound doesn't come from the hi-fli at all... but from the VCS3 or the Sinthy AKS... if you notice in the video in the background you can see an EMS Pitch-to-Voltage Converter which is used precisely to convert the sound of a guitar into a signal to control the synths...​​
                  Well-spotted.

                  Compare this screen grab from the video, looking at the knob layout
                  Click image for larger version Name: image.png Views: 327 Size: 607.4 KB ID: 363182​
                  ​
                  with the picture on this site: https://www.oldtech.com/synth/EMSPtoV2.html

                  I'm sold on this being it.
                  Last edited by Son of Nothing; 12-19-2023, 10:45 AM. Reason: I can't work the attachments thing on this site correctly, it seems
                  • Likes 5

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Son of Nothing View Post
                    Well-spotted.

                    Compare this screen grab from the video, looking at the knob layout
                    Click image for larger version Name: image.png Views: 327 Size: 607.4 KB ID: 363182​
                    ​
                    with the picture on this site: https://www.oldtech.com/synth/EMSPtoV2.html

                    I'm sold on this being it.
                    Thank you both! The answer was there in the video all along.

                    • Likes 1

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                      #11
                      Nice sleuthing!

                      I see the unit itself has a built in oscillator & envelope follower, so he may not even be using it with a VCS3.

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