Who leaked the pro-shot 1980 The Wall videos?

[JerryIsBored]

One aspect of the 35mm footage from 1981 that I haven't seen discussed yet is the quality of the film itself. The band used mostly Eastman film stock, which over the years has taken on an increasingly red hue (see the Immersion clip of "Happiest Days..."). The biggest problem now, if a re-transfer was done, would be this red hue. As bad as it was in 2011, I can only imagine the film being blood red by now.

However, there may be hope as supposedly, someone in the band's camp made backups of the film reels onto Umatic tapes back in 81 or 82. If that's true, then a correct color map could be generated from these tapes and fix the redness of the film.

(@NuffM please correct me on anything I got wrong).

[rontoon]

One aspect of the 35mm footage from 1981 that I haven't seen discussed yet is the quality of the film itself. The band used mostly Eastman film stock, which over the years has taken on an increasingly red hue (see the Immersion clip of "Happiest Days..."). The biggest problem now, if a re-transfer was done, would be this red hue. As bad as it was in 2011, I can only imagine the film being blood red by now.

However, there may be hope as supposedly, someone in the band's camp made backups of the film reels onto Umatic tapes back in 81 or 82. If that's true, then a correct color map could be generated from these tapes and fix the redness of the film.

(@NuffM please correct me on anything I got wrong).

The footage was shot on 35mm negative film. Filmmakers realized that that this type of film would lose some of its colors over time and appear to be magenta.

In response to the industry backlash, Kodak quickly developed more stable color dyes. At the National Archives, we know that, with very few exceptions, a non-reversal color print will be magenta before we even look at it. The government had mostly switched to video by the 1980s, so we don’t have a lot of color prints that haven’t faded. Luckily, the Eastmancolor negatives did not fade anywhere near as much as the prints, so our original negatives, while shifted a bit, have a lot of color to work with.

In the mid-70s, film negatives were created to hold their original colors for much longer. It also depends how the negatives were stored (in film cans under someone's bed would not be ideal). Having said that, there's no reason that modern film restoration couldn't correct any of these problems.

IMHO, I think that what we're seeing with the professionally filmed Wall footage is the result of the actual stage lighting rather than some of the film dyes fading over time.

[rontoon]

IIRC, Roger once stated in an interview that he regrets not filming/videoing the Pros and Cons tour so he could show it to his kids.

And by kids I'm sure he meant his adult offspring. The subject matter is obviously not meant for children.

[NuffM]

IMHO, I think that what we're seeing with the professionally filmed Wall footage is the result of the actual stage lighting rather than some of the film dyes fading over time.

I agree with all that you said except this part. Having collected thousands of photographs from this tour (and more importantly in this case, hundreds from June 1981), it is so safe to say that unfortunately, whether it was the negatives that were used in 2011 or the prints, something clearly went horribly wrong, either in the process of aging or whoever colour corrected that scan. For example, I have a photograph of the Happiest Days crescendo from June 14th, capturing the entire stage and all of the colours on 35mm film. The same shot appears right after the "but in the town" verse, and despite beautiful green, red, orange, blue and pink lights being fully visible in the photograph, in the official footage it is sadly all just one colour, being pink (example provided below).

This is just one example, but there are soooo many more I can mention. Don't even get me started on how terribly faded the close-ups have become. There's no information except red even though they used every colour!

[rontoon]

I agree with all that you said except this part. Having collected thousands of photographs from this tour (and more importantly in this case, hundreds from June 1981), it is so safe to say that unfortunately, whether it was the negatives that were used in 2011 or the prints, something clearly went horribly wrong, either in the process of aging or whoever colour corrected that scan. For example, I have a photograph of the Happiest Days crescendo from June 14th, capturing the entire stage and all of the colours on 35mm film. The same shot appears right after the "but in the town" verse, and despite beautiful green, red, orange, blue and pink lights being fully visible in the photograph, in the official footage it is sadly all just one colour, being pink (example provided below).

This is just one example, but there are soooo many more I can mention. Don't even get me started on how terribly faded the close-ups have become. There's no information except red even though they used every colour!

Unfortnately, none of us know the process used for the film that was included as bonus footage in the Immersion release, or if it even was sourced from the original negatives.

[TheMoebLoop]

Hm, sounds like another wasted opportunity, then, either due to time passed or lack of presence of mind. The comparison of images is telling and makes it obvious that RW should get an specialist in films and a Pink Floyd historian to work on restoring those reels as best as possible before doing any sort of editing - instead, we might just get Sean Evans.

[NuffM]

Unfortnately, none of us know the process used for the film that was included as bonus footage in the Immersion release, or if it even was sourced from the original negatives.

Exactly, there is just no way to know unfortunately. The close-ups in Behind The Wall were already blood red in less than 20 years of storage, so either they chose the absolute worst places to store this stuff or they're using really terrible prints made for TV etc.

I know that when they shot the footage, they printed it as 70mm. It's possible that these are the horrendous 70mm prints but there's just no way to know. They probably are, and Roger was too lazy to have new scans of the negatives done at the time.

In the case of the teasers being dodgy prints; if the negatives are still around, MAAAAAN. That shit could look incredible if treated properly. I would sell my house to have a go at colouring raw scans of those films (and unfortunately I don't think Roger's team would ever do it justice).

[Alanko]

Unfortnately, none of us know the process used for the film that was included as bonus footage in the Immersion release, or if it even was sourced from the original negatives.

Maybe a coincidence, but a lot of the footage in the Early Years set seems to run warm. The San Tropez footage in particular seems unusually warm. The sky during the soundcheck looks like a Saharan dust storm was blowing over.

[NuffM]

Maybe a coincidence, but a lot of the footage in the Early Years set seems to run warm. The San Tropez footage in particular seems unusually warm. The sky during the soundcheck looks like a Saharan dust storm was blowing over.

That St. Tropez footage is a very poor scan, given the money and technology that was available. The original reels are most definitely faded to a degree, but that weird yellow cast on it isn't natural. The bootleg copies that existed before that are much more colourful and cooler.

[lvri]

So, the concert film of The Wall are totally under control of Roger ? David and Nick can't ask for a release, or they just don't want and leave the decision to Roger ?
(I admit that I really don't know and/or understand all the rights stories in the band)

[ILuvHoney]

This was part of the settlement of the legaø battles in 1987. Roger got the rights to The Wall and Algie, Gilmour and Nick got the rights to the name Pink Floyd and to the rest of the Pink Floyd catalog.

[NuffM]

So, the concert film of The Wall are totally under control of Roger ? David and Nick can't ask for a release, or they just don't want and leave the decision to Roger ?
(I admit that I really don't know and/or understand all the rights stories in the band)

Roger owns all of the copyright for The Wall and the Final Cut, but he still needs an agreement from the rest of the guys if he wants to release something. I think.

[Emdy]

but he still needs an agreement from the rest of the guys if he wants to release something. I think.

Considering the saga of the liner notes debacle to present, I’m going to go buy a Powerball ticket.

[NuffM]

ILuvHoney RE: your reply on Ron's comment (I'm moving to posts instead of comments because it's easier for if this conversation continues.)

Photographic evidence of shots matching the 6th and 7th 1:1. I've been collecting thousands of photographs of this tour for years and years, and I've put all of my blood sweat and tears to make sure that the identification of each photo is the right night. I still have some to identify across the tour, but those are very hard to identify. It's easy to narrow it down to the leg, but the specific show can be hard if it's just one or two photos of virtually nothing. To say that I'm autistic about this would be the hugest understatement ever. If you want side by sides to confirm here, just let me know. The 100% absolute key elements to look for are David's shirt collar, if his sleeves are up or down, the pink doll at the front of the stage, the shadows on the wall, where certain objects (microphones, lights (neo-nazi) etc.) are placed on the stage at specific points in the show, tons of super autistic shit like this. This is what I have been doing with this tour non-stop since I got into the band, and I enjoy it more than I don't. As I said, if you want side by sides of some of the confirmed shots, let me know and I'll work on something. Also, the 8mm that has surfaced over the years (shoutout to Derek T. for reaching out to me!) has helped a big margin as well. Specifically his film of the 7th. There are a fucking LOT of moments where his 7th and 9th films end up multi-camming with the pro stuff that has surfaced.

The only confirmed 6th footage is a series of shots from the left balcony, behind the wall (Rick's side). The 3 shots I have confirmed as 6th so far is a shot of the plane literally coming towards the camera and the two side shots of David during Comfortably Numb (his left side, kind of behind him). As for the 7th, I mean it's literally everywhere across the entire VHS tape. In some rare circumstances it can be VERYYYYY hard to pick them apart from the 8th, but most of the time it is very easy to tell which is which. And yes, of course I have analyzed all of the material from all kinds of official teasers, advertisements and documentaries, and there is loads of 7th in those too, whether it's the same shots or not.

Let me know how I can help.

[ILuvHoney]

ILuvHoney RE: your reply on Ron's comment (I'm moving to posts instead of comments because it's easier for if this conversation continues.)

Photographic evidence of shots matching the 6th and 7th 1:1. I've been collecting thousands of photographs of this tour for years and years, and I've put all of my blood sweat and tears to make sure that the identification of each photo is the right night. I still have some to identify across the tour, but those are very hard to identify. It's easy to narrow it down to the leg, but the specific show can be hard if it's just one or two photos of virtually nothing. To say that I'm autistic about this would be the hugest understatement ever. If you want side by sides to confirm here, just let me know. The 100% absolute key elements to look for are David's shirt collar, if his sleeves are up or down, the pink doll at the front of the stage, the shadows on the wall, where certain objects (microphones, lights (neo-nazi) etc.) are placed on the stage at specific points in the show, tons of super autistic shit like this. This is what I have been doing with this tour non-stop since I got into the band, and I enjoy it more than I don't. As I said, if you want side by sides of some of the confirmed shots, let me know and I'll work on something. Also, the 8mm that has surfaced over the years (shoutout to Derek T. for reaching out to me!) has helped a big margin as well. Specifically his film of the 7th. There are a fucking LOT of moments where his 7th and 9th films end up multi-camming with the pro stuff that has surfaced.

The only confirmed 6th footage is a series of shots from the left balcony, behind the wall (Rick's side). The 3 shots I have confirmed as 6th so far is a shot of the plane literally coming towards the camera and the two side shots of David during Comfortably Numb (his left side, kind of behind him). As for the 7th, I mean it's literally everywhere across the entire VHS tape. In some rare circumstances it can be VERYYYYY hard to pick them apart from the 8th, but most of the time it is very easy to tell which is which. And yes, of course I have analyzed all of the material from all kinds of official teasers, advertisements and documentaries, and there is loads of 7th in those too, whether it's the same shots or not.

Let me know how I can help.

If I have understood correctly, Gilmour's sleeves were down on the 7th weren't they, unlike 8th where they were up? How can they be told apart from 9 August where his sleeves were also down? Are the close-up shots of Gilmour's guitar on Another Brick Pt 1 (where his sleeves are down) from 7 or 9 August?

I would love to get some detailed info about this, about where the 7 August shots appear as well as about 9 August shots in the first set and 8 August shots in the second etc. And based on how much appeared from each show on the VHS tape as well as in different documentaries, do you find it likely that all 3 shows were shot in full?

[NuffM]

If I have understood correctly, Gilmour's sleeves were down on the 7th weren't they, unlike 8th where they were up? How can they be told apart from 9 August where his sleeves were also down? Are the close-up shots of Gilmour's guitar on Another Brick Pt 1 (where his sleeves are down) from 7 or 9 August?

I would love to get some detailed info about this, about where the 7 August shots appear as well as about 9 August shots in the first set and 8 August shots in the second etc. And based on how much appeared from each show on the VHS tape as well as in different documentaries, do you find it likely that all 3 shows were shot in full?

Sleeves up: August 4th, 7th, 8th
Sleeves down: August 5th, 6th, 9th
(Bonus) Goldtop in Brick 2: every August night except for the 9th, where he swapped for the black strat.
The Brick 1 close up is from August 9th.

Of course all 3 were shot in full, there is a mountain of evidence to support it. The 6th? Well. Maybe it was fully shot by Lamden on the balcony behind the wall, but there's really no evidence. There aren't even pics of him up there (they're too dark).

As for how to actually separate the 7th and 8th shots, and to calculate how much of each appears in both sets and the documentaries, it's very hard to say/explain witbout the resources on hand right now. Some nights just have A LOOK to them. Once you have a handful of photographs confirmed to be one night, it's very easy from there to make matches and then line it up to potential shots in the footage etc..

The 7th 8mm film has helped confirm a lot of speculations I had years ago.

I know that a lot of what I say in regards to this topic comes across as "just trust me bro!" energy, but I wouldn't be saying any of this if I hadn't dedicated literally probably thousands of hours into this. I always try to go the extra mile to confirm things. If I'm unsure of a night and a photographer still has their ticket stub, that helps confirm my suspicions or completely ruin them. Yeeeears ago, I had tons of photographs labeled as the 6th Dortmund show in 1981. I labeled them as these because the "18th" set that was on A Fleeting Glimpse for decades had a stub in there that said 18th, so I figured "why would it be false?", it never even came to mind. But then I get a brand new set (The new "RickB" set on AFG) with a scanned stub and it tells me 19th, not 18th. I asked him if he attended two shows or if there was any possibility that the stub was incorrect, but the stub literally matched the seat, and well. The "18th" stub didn't. So then it became a mission to figure out which photographs were REALLY the 18th. Years later, I have every single show across the tour identifiable based on photographic evidence... EXCEPT a couple of the LA shows. For WHATEVER reason, security in that damn arena was on the top of their fucking game and they didn't let ANYBODY with ANY kind of equipment in. Some folks did manage to smuggle in things with incredibly thought out methods (Mick The Hat used a wheelchair, Reinhardt used a PHONE BOOK!), I have a photo set confirmed to be the opening night of the tour, and the guy shot those on 110 film, which goes into a super tiny camera that anybody with a brain could smuggle in. The nights that I have yet to identify won't be unidentified for long as I have a guy on my hands that took photographs of quite a few LA shows, and it's currently a matter of waiting for them to be shipped out once things settle on his end.

What really sucks is that some shows - while easily identifiable - just have almost no photographs at all. August 8th 1980 has a professional set by Neal Preston, some from Ian Russell, and a handful of sprinkled photographs that have surfaced over the years with seemingly no name attached. But there's nothing really remarkable... it sucks because that show is so well documented in terms of professional video, but there is no good audio and no good amateur photographs circulating. It sucks! The 7th and 9th have an unbelievable amount, and of course, both have a 30 minute long 8mm film.

Anyway, that's the end of my rant.
If you have more questions, please do let me know.

[TheMoebLoop]

I wish I could like this post more than once. 😆