Who leaked the pro-shot 1980 The Wall videos?

[lvri]

Just to be more precise about my post.
When I say "the only", I thought about the Pink Floyd at 4 (Roger, Nick, David and Rick). And of course, I talk about pro shot.

Pompei was a pro-shot, but the original film is lost (god damn it)
DSOTM, WYWH and Animals tour were not filmed The Wall was pro shot on film several times, but it's sleeping

And after the departure of Roger
AMLOR tour was pro shot on film on 2 locations (and what a good result... Could be great to have the other location on blu-ray, but this is DG's choice)
DB tour was shot on video... (F..k)

This is a little bit sad in my opinion to not have more. But this is life (sorry for the out of subject)

[Frankymole]

Well, I don’t know - but obviously they also had a SBD audio track

why bother with the video so much to spoil it with bad audio ?

questions questions questions

The pro films were intended to be used for the Wall movie, so presumably the audio is essentially a guide track only to help with editing. When it was decided not to use live footage of the band playing in the movie, the whole lot become irrelevant and consigned to the vault

[direwolf]

Slightly off-topic but I've often wondered where the snippet of live footage in the Radio KAOS video EP comes from and whether any whole pro-shot KAOS shows are lurking in a vault somewhere.

ie, at about 14:13 here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gKTd3CN4ok

Has anyone ever identified which show it's from (a bit of a tall order, I know) ?

[ILuvHoney]

Slightly off-topic but I've often wondered where the snippet of live footage in the Radio KAOS video EP comes from and whether any whole pro-shot KAOS shows are lurking in a vault somewhere.

ie, at about 14:13 here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gKTd3CN4ok

Has anyone ever identified which show it's from (a bit of a tall order, I know) ?

I think that identifying that short snippet (if it even is from a show at all, and not some ad hox faux setting from a rehearsal or film studio shot specifically for this music video) will be a hard task; it lasts a bit too short, and could practically be from anywhere.

HOWEVER, there is also this video from Italian TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCMM...BwaW5rIGZsb3lk
From 4:13 to 4:29, close-up video of Roger and his band performing Another Brick in the Wall is shown (with the audio continuing for a few seconds more in the background). It is clearly from the KAOS tour. The quality of the video is difficult to determine because of the low quality of this VHS-sourced clip, but at least some footage from the KAOS tour must exist. It might have been shot for a news report about a concert or something, but it might also be a short snippet from a fully filmed concert.

[ILuvHoney]

Other full shows exist, just not to the full pro-shot degree that most want. Most of the other "full shows" they would have are test recordings to see how they can improve a concert, with a camera at the back, just like Nassau 1980. Roger continued this into his solo tours, as far as I'm aware (I think the P&C Earls Court video is one of those recordings but I'm not csught up on Roger's solo lore, so correct me.)

Regarding the Earls Court 1984 video, my guess is no.
i believe that clip was filmed just for the purpose of TV broadcast.

The reason I don't believe it is a test recording similar to Nassau 1980, is the odd choice of camera angles.
The video of Money shows close-up shots of the band who are quite nice, but I assume Roger would have wanted some shots from the distance for this song as well, considering that they showed projections during the track.
Even more weird is that during the second set, the camera just zooms in close-up shots on the projections, which I doubt Roger would have preferred for such a video. After all, he had access to the film reels used on the projections, so filming them close up on a show would make no sense at all.

it's highly possible that they did actually film shows during the Pros and Cons tour as well, but I don't believe the MTV footage was shot by Roger's crew with a similar purpose. If it exists, a test film from a Pros & Cons show would likely have camera angles similar to the Nassau Coliseum 1980 footage, with a mix of distance shots from the audience showing how the show looked from afar with all the visuals, as well as probably some close-up shots of Roger and the band performing the set.

i highly doubt they would see any point in filming close-up shots of the projections when they could just play the film reels used during the show to see how they looked. My guess is that the MTV footage was likely shot by MTV personnel who were not familiar with the show. They probably saw the footage of the model and thought "wooow that woman is sexy" and zoomed in on her for the rest of the set.

[thespitwasduringmoney]

i second this theory, it'd be the same as those KAOS dress rehearsal tapes bc many news reports from '87 used them.

my guess is that the Earl's Court '84 footage would've been cut alongside Roger's infamous unaired interview with Nina Blackwood, but they never actually edited the footage together.

[rontoon]

IIRC, Roger once stated in an interview that he regrets not filming/videoing the Pros and Cons tour so he could show it to his kids.

[marksturdy]

Considering the content of that album... ew.

[TheMoebLoop]

y!me, marital infidelity, including several instances of the act, as well as the romantic couplet, "but, tonight, lie still/while I plunder your sweet grave".

[stonytokes]

TheMoebLoop I know what you mean. I can't even listen to The Wall anymore since I found out the young lady who Pink meets in One Of My Turns was there to do more than give him a bath. Scandalous!

[Frankymole]

It’s about time Roger leaks it.

The story has always gone thus: Film is expensive and the band were in financial difficulties (hence the need to exile themselves to France), they wouldn't get a concert film professionally shot on a whim just for their own use. The idea from the start was that The Wall would be a triple project - stage show, album and movie. The live footage was intended to form at least part of the movie - but plans developed and Alan Parker, the director who came aboard, decided in the end not to use it. That's why the band had made pro-shot film of their performances.

[rontoon]

That's why the band had made pro-shot film of their performances.

Alan Parker ended up filming the entire shows instead of the parts that were just meant to be in the film. The "pro-shot" videos you mentioned were made for the band and were never intended for a professional release.

[ILuvHoney]

Alan Parker's films are in Roger's vault now. Initially the segments the band was interested in (Happiest Days/Another Brick , Mother, Hey You) were edited together, and the rest was disgarded or perhaps the band didn't even know of their existence (hence Gilmour's erronous claim that "only 3 songs were filmed"). Instead, Steve O'Rourke hoarded all the films in his vault until his 2003 death, after which Roger got hold of them. That's why the only 1981 footage to appear in the Behind the Wall documentary was from the songs filmed for the movie, while the footage of the rest of the songs were from the 1980 videotape footage.

IIRC, the 1980 shows were videotaped for some documentary. That might explain why it was videotaped rather than filmed because this was normal practice for TV shows back in the days. If it was meant to be televised there would be no need to use film because tape was cheaper and it would never get shown in more than broadcast quality anyway. This might also explain the odd choice to use so much footage from 8 August, which was not one of the best shows but was very well shot with many angles, for the video they assembled together; if they were only going to use bits and pieces anyway, it would not matter if Gilmour forgot the lyrics to at least half of the songs when they were only going to use snippets from the footage anyway but it did matter that the footage was well-shot and edited. I would also assume that the 1980 video shooting was meant as a practice for the shooting of the 1981 shows.

[NuffM]

ILuvHoney most of the footage is only August 8th for the first set, and that is to accompany the soundboard. Same logic goes for set two with the 9th audio. Both sets are absolutely riddled with footage from the 7th and the before/after night. There are even some confirmed 6th shots in there from when Lamden was testing his camera on top of the wall.

[ILuvHoney]

NuffM I am curious how you can know for sure what night a particular camera shot is from.
Where do the 6 and 7 August footage appear in the bootleg?
Have you done similar research on the video snippets used in Behind the Wall, 7 Ages of Rock, Roger Waters The Wall Tour EPK etc as well to determine which shows they were from too?
I noticed that a lot of those snippets are not the same shots as those who appeared on the bootleg.
Do you know whether 6 and 7 August were also shot?

[OAI]

This thread is a great read, thanks to all for contributing. Something I've been thinking about with regards to the known footage and that which remains in the vaults, is the 50 year copywrite dumps and how this will come to a head in ~5years. My belief is Roger/the band will have to release something if not everything before the 50th anniversary's of these films performances. If not there really isn't anything stopping anyone with masters, or gen 1,2's etc from releasing at least the earl's court and nassau footage for big profits. More importantly maybe is whether any of the professionally filmed footage or audio recordings have ever been shared with crew, management, direct friends etc. Because if it has, there has to be a fear of it getting released by someone. Also, there was an ongoing rumour that Roger had a nice version of an original Wall show which he circulated amongst at least some of his band during his Wall shows 10 years ago. How tight of a grip did he have on that recording, is it possible anyone outside of the band is sitting on a copy? Or, and my memory isn't great a times but back in 1999'ish, I remember Roger claiming a new video had emerged, much brighter than what he had in the vaults and that he planned to release said footage. That obviously never came to be, but I also seem to remember that he was buying this footage from whoever had filmed the show...wasn't it the guy who did the behind the wall doc or something (sorry memory isn't great). Anyway I have to think or hope that the guy behind that filming probably held on to a digital copy. What's stopping him from professionally releasing it?

It's one thing to dump a bunch of mid sounding bootlegs out on the music streaming sites, to thwart bootleggers from releasing shows for some small profits here and there, but this film footage, of the band at or near their peak will have real public demand. I have to think that the band (or more importantly Roger) will want to get ahead of this and do a proper release(s) instead of letting some profiteers put out a sub par product and make millions in doing so.

In a perfect world, Roger or whoever has shared lots of this footage over the years and we get all the shows that were recorded released professionally simply out of fear that if they don't release it, someone else will.

Off topic a bit but I also wonder/ have hopes how these 50 year copywrite dumps might relate to open air mic'd Animals show recordings. Same idea that if they have ever shared any of these concerts over the years they might be fearful of them getting released by bootleggers and in order to get ahead of them, the band releases them prior to the 50th anniversaries of the shows. Even if these tapes were tightly held by PF, I would have to think dumping them would be preferable to the audience recording versions we all have?

Maybe I'm just grasping straws, but I think we could be in for a really interesting next 5 years or so..

Thoughts?

[NuffM]

This thread is a great read, thanks to all for contributing. Something I've been thinking about with regards to the known footage and that which remains in the vaults, is the 50 year copywrite dumps and how this will come to a head in ~5years. My belief is Roger/the band will have to release something if not everything before the 50th anniversary's of these films performances. If not there really isn't anything stopping anyone with masters, or gen 1,2's etc from releasing at least the earl's court and nassau footage for big profits. More importantly maybe is whether any of the professionally filmed footage or audio recordings have ever been shared with crew, management, direct friends etc. Because if it has, there has to be a fear of it getting released by someone. Also, there was an ongoing rumour that Roger had a nice version of an original Wall show which he circulated amongst at least some of his band during his Wall shows 10 years ago. How tight of a grip did he have on that recording, is it possible anyone outside of the band is sitting on a copy? Or, and my memory isn't great a times but back in 1999'ish, I remember Roger claiming a new video had emerged, much brighter than what he had in the vaults and that he planned to release said footage. That obviously never came to be, but I also seem to remember that he was buying this footage from whoever had filmed the show...wasn't it the guy who did the behind the wall doc or something (sorry memory isn't great). Anyway I have to think or hope that the guy behind that filming probably held on to a digital copy. What's stopping him from professionally releasing it?

It's one thing to dump a bunch of mid sounding bootlegs out on the music streaming sites, to thwart bootleggers from releasing shows for some small profits here and there, but this film footage, of the band at or near their peak will have real public demand. I have to think that the band (or more importantly Roger) will want to get ahead of this and do a proper release(s) instead of letting some profiteers put out a sub par product and make millions in doing so.

In a perfect world, Roger or whoever has shared lots of this footage over the years and we get all the shows that were recorded released professionally simply out of fear that if they don't release it, someone else will.

Off topic a bit but I also wonder/ have hopes how these 50 year copywrite dumps might relate to open air mic'd Animals show recordings. Same idea that if they have ever shared any of these concerts over the years they might be fearful of them getting released by bootleggers and in order to get ahead of them, the band releases them prior to the 50th anniversaries of the shows. Even if these tapes were tightly held by PF, I would have to think dumping them would be preferable to the audience recording versions we all have?

Maybe I'm just grasping straws, but I think we could be in for a really interesting next 5 years or so..

Thoughts?

You might be onto something with the inevitable copyright dump of 2030 etc., I haven't dug too much into my thoughts to consider that. Something strongly tells me that it will not matter and we will still not see an important release by then.

Roger did have an edit done of all of the footage ('80 AND '81) to show his bandmates. I'm not very sure if they all had their own copies, I can more easily imagine Roger hosting a watch party in his house or studio where everyone was invited to come. They needed to watch it to better understand how the new tour was gonna be like, but I really don't think they got their own copies. I could be wrong. If they did, if they release it, then they will be met by Roger's lawyers very quickly.

You mention Roger with "new video" in 1999, but the correction is 2009. In the December issue of MOJO magazine Roger goes on to explain that since O'Rourke's death, he had discovered a "whole new load" of footage. Based on photographic evidence as well as all of the teasers that we saw in that whole 2010-2015 period, I think it's more than safe to say that the entire concert exists on 35mm. Maybe not all from one night, but definitely when stitched together. There is tons of overlapping. Anyway, no need to "buy" the footage because the footage was his copyright and it went straight to him. As for what is stopping Roger from releasing anything, nothing. He is very very lazy and more than likely believes that the 2015 release of his Wall tour is superior in every way and broadcasts a more modern message. The old tour will always reign superior in my heart no matter what he says or what anyone says or shows me. The updated meanings ruin it for me because it turns The Wall into something more like his solo albums where the politics are forced onto you. Yes PF was always political, but it got real bad at The Final Cut. The 2015 Wall release is just a mish mash of what The Wall would sound like if The Final Cut and Amused To Death had a baby.

Money and public demand are not the problem. David has said a few times before that if he were to hold the rights to the footage then it would have all been released already. Roger stated in 1987 that he had stomped any previous attempts to release it because it fails to do the shows justice, and that he would most likely drop it in 25 years time (2012) as a historical document. Well, that never fucking happened. Nick has shown great interest in releasing it too, stating in an interview a few years back that he has seen parts of it and that it looks "great", and also stating that he hopes it will come out one day. Roger hasn't acknowledged the footage or shown anything new regarding it since 2017. He hasn't forgotten, he just doesn't give a fuck.

[stonytokes]

I started watching the 2015 Wall film and couldn't get through much of it at all. Painfully unwatchable IMO.

[YYZ]

Roger had the finished excellent quality 80-81 Wall show on his lap top.
It was this version he showed to band members before the tour around 2010 for cross referencing.
Band members never owned a copy, only watched the above version.

[beeco]

This is why I love this forum. I'm sat watching the Montreal 77 gig put out by PFRG and reading this with a beer.

I'm 20 years into my Floyd fandom and to see such great knowledge and research about the footage we don't have is amazing.

20 years ago I'd only heard a ratty bootleg... Now I'm watching 8mm videos from Ivor Wynn, Montreal, LA. There's multiple nights of The Wall on 8mm at the tip of my fingers.

20 mores years, it's an easy wait. I can hang on for that full Wall show.

Thanks to everyone that researches, discusses, questions and most importantly put this stuff out!

[DesertRat]

Cheers to that mate, nicely said!

[NuffM]

This is why I love this forum. I'm sat watching the Montreal 77 gig put out by PFRG and reading this with a beer.

I'm 20 years into my Floyd fandom and to see such great knowledge and research about the footage we don't have is amazing.

20 years ago I'd only heard a ratty bootleg... Now I'm watching 8mm videos from Ivor Wynn, Montreal, LA. There's multiple nights of The Wall on 8mm at the tip of my fingers.

20 mores years, it's an easy wait. I can hang on for that full Wall show.

Thanks to everyone that researches, discusses, questions and most importantly put this stuff out!

As somebody who is strongly invested in this passion and is doing their best in terms of finding new films and putting them out, this means a lot to hear. Thanks so much!!! I feel like there are some selfish people in this field who have permission to release things that they have (or could make the effort to get permission) but just choose not to. I'm in this field for the fans more than myself. If you look on pinkfloydz.com/AFG, we've been releasing tons of our photo sets recently, with over 10-15 more from '73-'81 coming. I'm not in this for selfish gain. I love the community and I love being able to put out things that people will love and enjoy. QUALITY > QUANTITY.

By the way, I could have saved several films for myself to keep for trading. 1980-02-25/26/28, 1975-04-27(2), maybe Hamilton if I really wanted to, and a couple others. I could have kept these for personal gain, but I didn't. I genuinely enjoy releasing things when they are done and ready for release. As a matter of fact, I have some other unreleased films that I know you guys will all go absolutely APE SHIT over. These will all come out this year hopefully when they're done. I can't give any more info, but I will say that Hamilton has a rival.

People in the trading circles do get to see a lot of cool stuff, sure. But I like making thousands of people smile more than seeing all of the stuff I wish I could see.

Glad you're enjoying the Montréal '77 composite!! We have more composites planned in the future for when we finish our grand restoration of all of the Wall 8mm films. Our partner Davide is doing full matrix projects for every night that Derek T. captured and so far they all sound absolutely UNBELIEVABLE. Composite videos will be released alongside the restorations, a la Montréal. Thanks again!!

[ammoj2]

Great to hear! The quality of the films and syncs coming out over the last few years has been mind-blowing. Nothing better than sitting with a glass of wine in a dark room enjoying these things.

[AtomHeartFucker]

This is why I love this forum. I'm sat watching the Montreal 77 gig put out by PFRG and reading this with a beer.

I'm 20 years into my Floyd fandom and to see such great knowledge and research about the footage we don't have is amazing.

20 years ago I'd only heard a ratty bootleg... Now I'm watching 8mm videos from Ivor Wynn, Montreal, LA. There's multiple nights of The Wall on 8mm at the tip of my fingers.

20 mores years, it's an easy wait. I can hang on for that full Wall show.

Thanks to everyone that researches, discusses, questions and most importantly put this stuff out!

Someone said that YouTube is a time machine, and it's true. The sheer number of bootlegs and matrix recordings available is mind-blowing. It's a treasure trove of rare and incredible performances that we might never have experienced otherwise.
A massive thank you to everyone who shares these gems out of pure passion for the music. Your dedication keeps the spirit of Pink Floyd alive and allows us to journey back to those legendary moments in time.

[TheMoebLoop]

Great post, this, NuffM, with a very beautiful message, saying tons about the sort of guys you at the PFRG are – if only everybody was this generous.

In the spirit of what beeco said, with whom I fully agree: Roger’s edit of the films from the original tour can linger in the vaults, for all I care! No, not really, but bear with me. Those 35mms were high desiderata for all those decades, when all we had were those who-knows-how-many-gens-removed to-tape professional videos of New York and London 1980, and, for added colour, equally high gen copies of audience 8mms; in this scenario, it was very reasonable that we all felt that empty feeling in our stomach that was a mix of excitement and longing when snippets of either low-gen VHS or film appeared in those documentaries. And then, came D.T.’s material and the story behind it.

I’m not wanting to dictate how one should feel about this (and aforementioned empty feeling still remains a reasonable response to the current state of affairs), but, for my money, the concept of a complete Wall concert film as done by PFRG using D.T.’s astounding achievement as raw material for the team’s careful restoration and curation, married with a matrix from the endlessly talented Davide would make it THE document to get from the tour; many are the reasons, but the track record of PFRG is, by itself, justification that this would be done with love, rigour and care, with no expense spared and nothing that would get in the way of the event itself. King Lerch before them, and now PFRG have shown time and time again that a well-transferred and corrected 8mm straight from the master, depending on how well captured it was, can stand on its own as not only a serious document of a concert, but also as one that can be watched for pleasure with one’s family and friends; D.T.’s source material definitely fits that description, and the painstaking measures that he took to be thorough and stable in his results make me think that the experience of this hypothetical complete performance would enable us to have a very good idea of how it might have been to attend one of those shows.

Comparatively, may we think about all that we know about how RW has treated those 35mms so far – granted, with only “The Happiest Days of Our Lives” from the Immersion box and the numerous fragments in Waters’s promotional videos, it’s not much, but, for the sake of my point, I ask that we speculate that that is how the whole compilation of the professional footage would look like (and we have no reason to suppose it wouldn’t): I’m no expert in film by any means, but it feels far more tantalising (because we cannot access it) as opposed to something which looks good in an objective way. The colour footage makes it seem as if Pink Floyd mostly used only red and orange lights at the show, which I remember reading many times that is an artefact of the films themselves, and so not something which could be corrected; we must remember that most of the close-ups are from a rehearsal (11^th June 1981?), so, depending on much of a how purist one is, not really representative of a Wall show; there are a few slow-motion snippets, which is a strange aesthetic choice, certainly, and might mar some people’s experience with its downright cheesiness; the audio is from “Is there Anybody out there?”, which is its own can of worms (auto tune, anyone?; Andy Roberts on film vs. Snowy White for at least a good half of the audio), and there is no reason to think that it would not be, since it already exists and does the job; betraying the footage’s original intent, every fragment has a marked “cinematic” quality (for lack of a better word), which is not to say that such an attribute is per se undesirable, but, different from the 1980 VHS footage, or, say, “Delicate Sound of Thunder” (also filmed in 35mm), it feels uncannily controlled, almost staged, as opposed to a concert film; last, but most detrimental, in my opinion, is the near omnipresence of lens flare, which creates horizontal and vertical rectangular bands (I have no idea what its source is, but I take it to be another strange aesthetic choice), at best, accentuating its almost hallucinatory quality, at worst, spoiling the presentation by being an eyesore.

However interesting it would be to have that compilation of professional film, if only for the historical value of being the sole such document of a four man Pink Floyd at the tail end of its apex, I don’t think it does justice to the concert as well as D.T.’s footage does, and I can only imagine that the difference will be even more pronounced in favour of the latter once PFRG does its magic on it; in my opinion, the only way that RW’s hypothetical product would have a leg up over the 8mms would be if it includes a healthy amount of material from behind the wall, so that we can have privileged peeks at the ant-like workers running against time and going up and down on those platforms to build the namesake structure, or setting those cages up (alas, if Waters’s 2015 release is anything to go by, I don’t think that incidental activity would feature very much).

And so, I conclude this lengthy post with: go, PFRG, go!