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**rontoon** · 05-01-2024, 07:51 PM

This has zero to do with Pink Floyd.

**DiegoFermoli** · 05-01-2024, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by rontoon View Post

This has zero to do with Pink Floyd.

I'm not doubting you here, but could you elaborate? The timing is spot on for 1966 and it does explain the other band called The Tea Set. I mean, was the Tea Set a really popular band name in 66 and there were potentially three of them around the same time? Consider me confused right now

**rontoon** · 05-01-2024, 09:17 PM

Pink Floyd got their name in 1965 after being known as the Tea Set for the previous year. This ad is from 1966 and has nothing to do with them. Here, this may help.

https://youtu.be/nji2xIue_Mc?si=o0yGl8r50mcNo5Lz

**DiegoFermoli** · 05-01-2024, 11:31 PM

"Throughout the autumn we played on, usually under the name the Tea Set, but we now had an alternative name, created by Syd. The name had come about under duress. We were playing as the Tea Set, out at an RAF base, probably Northolt just outside London, when, lo and behold we found that extraordinarily, there was another band called the Tea Set booked to appear. I'm not sure if the other Tea Set had precedence because they were on first or later, but we rapidly had to come up with an alternative. Syd produced, with little further ado, the name Pink Floyd Sound, using the first names of two venerable blues musicians Pink Anderson and Floyd Council."

Nick Mason: Inside Out

That's the bit I mentioned earlier - the only problem with this is that the official (and much copied) gig list doesn't list any gigs at an RAF base in autumn 1965 - there were two gigs at RAF bases at the tail end of 1964 and one in January 1965, some 8 or 9 months before this supposed other gig.

When you say it was 1965 it makes it sound like a year's gap between this other Tea Set and the original Floyd Tea Set - but it's a lot less than a year if Mason is correct because he clearly refers to it being in the autumn - but note how even he isn't sure about the date or the exact venue as he writes "probably Northolt". Given that we're talking about events that occurred almost sixty years ago, I'm not so sure we should rush in and trust our sources definitively, but If we trust Mason's account then the gap could be a matter of a few months or even less.

Whoever this third Tea Set were - they had enough clout to force the Floyd to change their name, I don't think there's any disputing that aspect of the story. We also know that this other band started out with a full page advert in the NME which wouldn't have been cheap. I can see how a new band with a full page ad (at least at its inception) would have the upper hand when it came to deciding which one of the two had to change their name. I doubt the Floyd Tea Set had any costly full page ads at the time?

And thirty minutes later... (having spent a fair old while ruling out the Dutch band "The Tee Set" who were also active around this period - but only in the Netherlands by all accounts)

According to The Upbury Chronicler (Link)

"Remembered, here are a collection of the Tea Council tea drinking television commercials, a campaign that was screened nationwide Autumn 1965 through to the next year, and their press advertisements promoting the drinking of tea which took place during the same period. The primary slogan used in the campaign was "Join the Tea Set". Obviously aimed to also appeal to the untapped youth market of consumers."

So this campaign was active in 1965, and more specifically it started in autumn 1965 which lines up with Nick Mason's memories (albeit minus an RAF air base)

I'm hard pressed to believe there were a whopping four Tea/Tee Sets belting out the blues in 1965.

But then I read the article a bit further and we actually have a date (clearly not good for my cause...)

A 'Tea Set' pop group were formed as a direct result of winning a song competition, sponsored by the British Tea Council. That story began when a 'Join the tea set' song competition was first advertised in the February 11th 1966, edition of the New Musical Express newspaper.

Okay, so we're still out by at least two or three months but, as previously stated, we are dealing with memories of events from over sixty years ago, which I think should perhaps be factored in here. It's also possible that the same tea company was behind a previous attempt at getting a band called The Tea Set up and running before that advert in the NME. The only other snag is that the linked page also indicates when this Tea Set was formed and their gig list which starts around May of 1966... so now the gap just got a whole lot bigger. (my cause takes another heavy blow...)

I do not know when the 'N.M.E.' actually published the group names of the winning entry, but they are also named in the 'The Tea Flyer' … The newspaper of the Brooke Bond Group. "Meet the The Tea Set Group," The Tea Flyer 10, no 7. (July 1966). Neither of which I have found a copy of to read.

Thursday June 30th 1966. At last, the winning group has been unmasked and the members names published in The Harrow Observer and Gazette.

But we still have two different dates for this RAF gig, according to Glenn Povey we have a specific date (Link) and it's not Mason's autumn 1965

Pink Floyd aficionado Alan Gleaves from Stapleford explained; "In reference to page 29 of Glenn Povey's book, 'The Tea Set' turned up to play a significant gig at RAF Uxbridge in January 1965 only to learn that there was another band billed to play at the same show called 'The Tea Set' . It has been documented that Syd Barrett changed their name half way through this show to 'Pink Floyd'.

And the plot thickens (for about two seconds and then fizzles out rather abruptly)

Source Scotbeat/Wordpress

So we can probably rule out the Scottish "T Set" who were also active in the same period.

I take it all back, right now it feels like there was "Tea or T or Tee" Set for every day of the month in the mid 1960s. But what's bugging me is that whoever this other band was, they were big enough to force The Floyd to change their name - yet we have no idea who they were, where they played (barring an RAF base) or any mention of them in any of the national or local papers. That's the bit that doesn't make much sense to me,

I'll keep looking.

**ruben77** · 05-02-2024, 12:44 AM

Tea is such an important part of British culture, and tea sets have been present in each and every British household for many decades (if not centuries)... that it is very hard to believe a group of friends came with the idea of "tea set" for a name only after seeing the ad, and that absolutely no-one else before 1966 ever thought about naming their band like that. You don't need tea advertisement from a big company for some teenagers to come with silly names and start playing.

**DiegoFermoli** · 05-02-2024, 12:57 AM

Originally posted by ruben77 View Post

Tea is such an important part of British culture, and tea sets have been present in each and every British household for many decades (if not centuries)... that it is very hard to believe a group of friends came with the idea of "tea set" for a name only after seeing the ad, and that absolutely no-one else before 1966 ever thought about naming their band like that. You don't need tea advertisement from a big company for some teenagers to come with silly names and start playing.

I'm not doubting it's a popular name - but even Discogs has less than half a dozen 'Tea Sets' in their database. Popular? Yes. Insanely popular? No, I don't think so. I've identified one in Scotland, one in the Netherlands, the tea company one and, of course, the Floyd incarnation. I'm just trying to work out if it's possibly one of them. So far, not looking like it - but given that both the date and venue are highly questionable, I'm still keeping an open mind. Could it be some obscure fly-by-night band that remains completely undocumented? Of course, but why not exhaust all other avenues (or try to) before settling on that assumption.

What I am wondering is if the Floyd Tea Set simply "heard" of another band with the same name and changed their name accordingly - and it's not that there was another band with the same name on the same bill. They may have heard about this other band at that specific gig in conversation.
Stories change over the years, memories get fuzzy... and it's just a theory.
Also, based on this logic, where's the plethora of "Fish and Chips" bands?

(runs off to check Discogs...)

**Alanko** · 05-02-2024, 08:18 AM

A tiny factoid from the Syd era being massively overanalysed? Somebody needs to tell that Felix Atagong guy to write a 5,000 word blog post about this, post-haste!

I think it was reasonably common to find bands called the Something Set back then. Usually a performer's name, or similar. Already outdated as a naming convention by the mid-60s and more of a jazz or show band thing. It is hard to Google band names with 'Set' in the name, however, so I'm drawing from my memory here.

A tea set is a set of matching cups, saucers and a teapot. The sort of thing gifted to newlyweds and viewed as aspirational to some degree (before iPhones and the like). If you got a Denby 21-piece tea set then you were going places, socially.

As such, I think the Tea Set would be a gentle pun or mildly satirical name for a band, using an ironically archaic naming convention and banal/socially aspirational household object that would be in common parlance during the era.

**DiegoFermoli** · 05-02-2024, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Alanko View Post

A tiny factoid from the Syd era being massively overanalysed? Somebody needs to tell that Felix Atagong guy to write a 5,000 word blog post about this, post-haste!

It's just a bit of fun trying to figure out if I can identify this other band - I've already highlighted the massive discrepancy in the alleged date of this gig, which I wasn't aware of before.

I thought there might be some interest here, but all I see are posts telling me what a 'tea set' is or broad posts that don't really bring anything to the table - or a veiled criticism quoted above. I'm from the UK and drinking a cup of tea (PG Tips to be precise) as I type this on a rather cold and wet morning 1000 miles away. I'm well aware of what a tea set is, we have at least two or three sets here somewhere - not that anyone ever uses them

So you're all okay to accept that they changed their name in January 1965 (Povey) or autumn 65' (Mason) - or perhaps you accept both and see the original Floyd as possibly some sort of early time travellers? And any attempts to try and prove one or the other is considered 'overanalysing' around these parts?

Like I said, it's just a bit of fun and nothing more.

I have no idea who this Atagong guy is but there's no denying they've done their research - did you actually read the entire article about the origin of the name or just skim through it? Again, if there's something wrong or the information is incorrect, please elaborate for the rest of us (well, just me, I guess at this point

)

Just one last thing - before I dozed off last night it occurred to me that there's also a rather large gaping hole in the original story we all seem to be missing - namely, why would a concert promoter hire two bands with the same name - and then wait until they actually turn up and tell (order?) one of them to change their name? How would they "accidentally" do that? Yet more food for thought.

In the meantime I'm going to roll another one and ponder the complexities surrounding Nick Mason's shoe size.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knUb5ZmD7JI&t=18s

**YASHA** · 05-02-2024, 03:14 PM

A very interesting topic!
Good luck in your search =)

**DiegoFermoli** · 05-02-2024, 03:50 PM

Thanks, at last some encouraging words

I've found yet another Tea Set (or T-Set) who were active in the mid 1960s (link)

(I don't have time to check properly now - I'll update this post later tonight)

"Barry Walker, who wrote to me about this group was the lead guitarist and singer. In the 60's the same members used to play as a group in cabarets in England but decided to come to Singapore to try their luck.

Familiar with the local scene - Barry was around for four or five years since 1966 - he had recommended T-Set to play, and at the Orchard Road area too. (Barry is featured on this blog with his other groups The Figure and In-Sect. Click Barry Walker under Labels below)."

**rontoon** · 05-02-2024, 06:16 PM

Want to overcomplicate things?
Apparently there were also bands that went by T Set and Tee-Set! 🤣

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tee-Set

https://www.facebook.com/TheTSet/

**DiegoFermoli** · 05-02-2024, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by rontoon View Post

Want to overcomplicate things?
Apparently there was also bands that went by T Set and Tee-Set! 🤣

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tee-Set

https://www.facebook.com/TheTSet/

The first one is the Dutch band I mentioned earlier in one of my posts - who I'd ruled out quite early on because there was nothing to suggest they played outside of the Netherlands. However, just before I had to scarper out of the house earlier today I stumbled across this:

The connection to this Dutch incarnation doesn't quite end there for this serious rabbit-hole of a journey. According to Wikipedia the late Ray Fenwick from the Spencer Davis Group was also a member around the relevant time, from 1965 - 67. The years certainly line up. Here's some info (and link to the wikipedia page for this particular Tee Set)

"The band was formed in 1965 in Delft, Netherlands by singer Peter Tetteroo [nl]. Other early members were Gerard Romeyn on guitar, Polle Eduard on bass, Carry Janssen on drums, and Robbie Plazier on keyboard. Their first single released in 1966 on the Delta label, "Early in the Morning", was successful in The Netherlands.^[2] The band had a top 10 hit "Don't You Leave" the same year, selling 10,000 copies in its first week of release"

I'm guessing the London 'scene' wasn't that big in 1965/66, and I think there's a chance the Floyd Tea Set may have at the least been "made aware of" this other band with a strikingly similar name - who also just so happened to be on the cusp of success. I don't think they ever shared the same bill, but I would put this band quite high up as a serious contender for the other 'Tee Set'. It lines up with a band that must have been bigger than the Floyd Tea Set at the time - and crucially, big enough to make them change their name and not vice-versa.

So many twists and turns.

Another website with lot more info on the origins of the Tee Set states that just before they decided on that name, they had previously tried to sign to EMI Holland in 1965 - two years later The Floyd did actually sign to EMI. So, again, we have some strong connections here. These bands were all operating in similar circles, if not the same country. Check out the link below for (a lot) more information and history of the band.

Source Badcatrecords

The Shats!!?

"In 1964 Ray played a season at Butlin’s Holiday Camp in Clacton with a group called The Excels, a move that was to connect him to future stars. The band backed a number of well-known names, including Marty Wilde, Crispian St.Peters and Gene Vincent.

As well as Elkie Brooks and The Marionettes, a singing group whose ranks included Mac and Katie Kissoon, who also went on to have chart success in the 1970’s.

Next stop was The Syndicats, whose guitarist Steve Howe (later of Yes) had just exited the band. Ray came up with “B” side “Crawdaddy Simone” for the band’s next single. Hallmarked by some incredible wah-wah effect guitar work, it was produced by another music legend: Joe Meek.

During his time with The Red Devils, Ray did a stint on the German club circuit, befriended Dutchman Gerry Romeyn who later introduced him to Peter Tetteroo. Spotting Ray’s moves, Tetteroo asked him to join the Dutch-based group Tee Set. It was late 1965 and cult status awaited this line-up out of which emerged After Tea, enjoying hit single success in their native Holland, including the inventively titled “After Tea”.

Ray’s time in Holland had not gone unnoticed and he was talent-spotted to play guitar with Spencer Davis’ eponymous group. The two met and Ray was in, contributing extensively to latest album ‘With Their New Face On’ and staying with the band until its demise in 1969, the year he co-wrote and played on with the rest of Spencer’s band the theme to British kids show, ‘Magpie’."

Source singsongmusic

My (probably) final thoughts are that this is the band - for all of the reasons outlined above. It would have been problematic for the Dutch Tee Set to have another band with the same (sounding) name also touring and active in the UK at the same time. They may be two different countries but bands from both sides were hopping over and playing in each other's country and back and forth, constantly. Aside from the obvious press and media confusion, there's also the rather matter-of-fact way in which Nick Mason recounts the story - there's no regret or upset in the comment - probably because they'd only chosen the name recently and at that point in their career it wouldn't have made much difference if they changed it or not.

But let's suppose there was some other band I've yet to discover who was just a low-key band playing the gig circuit back then - why would Syd, et al. have backed down so easily? The decision seems to have been taken in an instant by Nick's account. I lean towards his retelling as a more amusing story to tell the curious - it certainly sounds better than "there was this other Dutch band at the time..." and I suspect he's just rolled with it. It also explains the odd discrepancy with the dates. I'm more inclined to believe it was autumn (it's hard to confuse a cold wintery January with a wet autumnal October) If that's the case, it makes sense that they got wind of the up-and-coming Tee Set very early on, possibly through word of mouth or official channels, and then made the switch.

Short of racking the surviving members brains, which isn't likely to happen, I accept that this is all just speculation. I could, of course, be completely wrong. It's certainly been fun digging around

All I can do now is leave you with a link to the original Cool Ruler... and roll another one.

Another site with more Tee Set info alexgitlin

Okay, no more sleuthing for now, if anyone wants to share their thoughts, please be my guest.

**NuffM** · 05-02-2024, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by DiegoFermoli View Post

no more sleuthing for now, if anyone wants to share their thoughts, please be my guest

Dude you're writing entire essays on stuff that is merely speculation with little support to back it up. I'd be shocked if anyone actually reads through these entire posts.

**DiegoFermoli** · 05-02-2024, 10:27 PM

How much support does a person need? It's not easy finding these sources... and I've no real reason to question any of them? Again, if you do, let me know why?

There's 300 (odd) views, a senior member said thanks and a few likes... I think people are reading this.

But I will leave you with one final snapshot. This is the only one that lines up with a T-Set, an RAF Base, two venues Floyd performed at - and it's the mid-1960s.

However, it's confirmed to be 1967 - but it is uncanny how all of the rest of the facts match up. I just wanted to add this as an addendum. (source Scotbeat)

Even if you can't agree with the insanity of it all, I would at least think you could learn something about the Scottish 60s music scene, 60s Dutch bands (including The Shats) and quite a bit of other background into. Not to mention the very British appreciation of tea.

Where's the harm in trying to see if it's possible to identify the other Tea Set? It's not like I forced you to click on the post and read it? Did I?

I am definitely done though, that's for sure.

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The Tea Set conundrum... possibly explained?

The Tea Set conundrum... possibly explained?

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