Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Perception of David vs Roger.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Perception of David vs Roger.

    I occasionally will lurk on the Pink Floyd Reddit page, usually until I get frustrated by people correcting others with completely incorrect information and my head wants to explode.

    I want to preface this by saying that I love all Pink Floyd. Syd-era: love it, the classic 4 man floyd: love it. Roger-less floyd: love it.

    I know Roger doesn’t do himself any favors but i also think David (and/or Polly via social media) can sometimes be the aggressor and stir shit up sometimes.

    Thinking about how the 2 are perceived led me to thinking about this:

    I often read comments deriding Roger talking about how David played all these Bass parts because Roger couldn’t.

    But:

    1. Considering the massive egos involved, I think there’s something to be said for the fact that Roger was willing to let David record those parts in order to end up with the best possible recording at the end of the day. A lot of musicians would insist on playing the part themselves and hurting the overall outcome to satisfy their ego. I do believe that often, Roger’s focus was to make the best possible song/album at hand, and I think that is admirable.

    2. Yes, David played a bunch of Bass parts. Pigs, Sheep, Hey You, and so on. And I regularly see it posited that this means Roger was incapable and is “lesser than” as a result.

    but no one ever points out that Roger was playing guitar on Floyd albums as early as Meddle (and played acoustic or electric guitar on every album from Meddle until he was gone except DSOTM) and played Keyboards/synth on every album from DSOTM until he left. Yet no one says, I guess David just wasn’t up to the task of playing the rhythm parts on such and such song.

    And while I think the Rick not playing so much on the Wall thing is a bit overstated, though he was not there for the several month mad rush to get the album done under deadline that saw many overdubs without him…which is largely what people are referring to when they criticize Rick’s absence on the Wall…

    Roger did play a fair amount of synth on the Wall and the Final Cut, as well as a fair amount of songs that he played guitar on.

    This was prompted by someone insisting on Reddit that Roger barely played on Animals at all, and I had to inform them that Roger is actually the only member on all 5 songs, and that despite David playing bass on Sheep and Pigs, Roger actually plays fairly prominent rhythm guitar parts in both songs.


    I don’t care to debate his politics or how he chooses to handle himself, but this narrative that Roger just wrote lyrics is really quite mistaken. And to illustrate his importance I like to remind people that between 1970 (Atom Heart Mother) and 1983 (the Final Cut), Roger either wrote or co-wrote 93.75% of all the material they released. Maybe this person deserved more credit or Roger was stingy with credits…all totally possible…but aside from a very small handful of songs (like 5…maybe 6), Roger was either the or one of the composers.

    and to be clear, I am not trying to engage in the endless Dave vs Rog debate. I love David and the band was the sum of its parts. I don’t have a preference for any member, but if you made me choose, I’d probably go Nick. He seems like the most mature of the guys and actually appreciates their work while the people in question constantly slag off the songs that I love.


    #2
    There are always disputes around high art, this is inevitable
    We were all on the same page

    TBS14

    Comment


      #3
      Not a great topic for this place.

      Comment


        #4
        This is pretty much the usual reddit discussion... now brought to R&D.

        Comment


          #5
          There's a book called how to lie with statistics, which everybody should read. You can make raw data mean whatever you want it to mean, sometimes completely opposing things. You can also apply meaning to things that aren't there, according to the point you are trying to prove. A lot of Roger's writing credits will be for writing lyrics to music by the others. Rick and David don't have any desire to be lyricists. Rog is arguably the best lyric writer in the band, but there's nobody trying to take the title from him. A lot of listeners don't care for lyrics much - me being one of them. In my less than stellar music career, I was always willing to share song writing credits for things I wrote alone with the whole band, so there was no situation where the songwriters made more money from royalties than the non composing drummer, and would be driving around in Porches while the guy that in the early days had to have a van to transport his kit and picked up everybody else and dropped them off when we had a gig, was still in his battered old Transit. The sound coming out of the speakers to the audiences ear was always the sum of all three, four or five members (depending on which band I was in) and what they chose to play, and how they chose to play it. Different line ups would mean the songs would sound differently. I, personally, listen to music in the same way..what is the sound sculpture forming in the room like ? I don't really care who wrote what, just what all the musicians played and how they played together. Other folks will listen differently, but there's little point trying to score points to prove one way is right and the others wrong. (by the way, I like my steak medium rare with mushrooms and peppercorn sauce, and pineapple on my pizza. Any one that has them any other way clearly doesn't like food.)

          Comment


          • geoffers
            geoffers commented
            Editing a comment
            i was with you till the pineapple fiasco... flame on!!

          #6
          A lot of this has actually crossed my mind. If Dave plays bass he’s considered the greater musician, but if Roger records guitar it’s considered meaningless… I agree that they were trying to architect the best possible album(s).

          Comment


            #7
            I normally avoid the Pink Floyd Reddit for this reason

            Comment


              #8
              Know what I think? Not directed toward you specifically, but toward the folks that fuel these wars and cannot grasp what an opinion is; "shut the fuck up already!"

              I admit that I use to partake in these immature discussions years ago, because I loved drama and toxicity and causing problems. I look back in cringe and shame and I roll my eyes. Now whenever I see any SLIGHT hint of a Roger VS David argument, I just immediately try to exit the conversation. It's such a worthless discussion/debate/argument. It is truly one of the most counter-productive topics that we as a community can talk about.

              Don't even get me started on the hell-hole that is the r/PinkFloyd subreddit, or the "circlejerk" sister-server...
              - The Pink Floyd Research Group -

              Comment


                #9
                I love all Floyd, that's all I have to say about that

                Comment


                  #10
                  Ah, I just want to concentrate on the music..

                  Comment


                    #11
                    In the 1960s, Paul McCartney was deeply influenced by the session bassist James Jamerson. This changed Paul's outlook on the instrument, from the dull thump on the early Beatles records to more harmonically supportive and musically engaging bass lines.

                    Roger never had such a profound epiphany on bass. In the '70s his playing went backwards. Neither a rigid time keeper or brilliant harmonist, his bass lines were perfunctory root-fifth or root-octave parts that lumber along. One of the reasons I don't enjoy live recordings after 1972 or so.

                    Dave vs Roger is looking at anything Floyd the wrong way. Roger without Dave is an old man with a warbly voice railing away against perceived foes against a largely boring musical backdrop. Dave without Roger is all glassy guitar solos and washy synth pads, but lyrics you can instantly ignore. The magic of Floyd is when a pair of incompatible creators and humans were emulsified by the setting of the band; forced to compromise where one wanted political ideology writ large over agonisingly bland music (Roger) and the other wanted expansive soundscapes and rich guitar solos (Dave).
                    Last edited by Alanko; 02-09-2024, 08:30 AM.

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Originally posted by Alanko View Post
                      The magic of Floyd is when a pair of incompatible creators and humans were emulsified by the setting of the band; forced to compromise where one wanted political ideology writ large over agonisingly bland music (Roger) and the other wanted expansive soundscapes and rich guitar solos (Dave).
                      Totally agree!

                      We were all on the same page

                      TBS14

                      Comment


                        #13
                        They were amazing together, but they are also great apart. Both have great skills that I enjoy a lot.
                        The same goes with Nick, I love his drumming, I love concentrating on his drumming on live recordings. I still very much enjoy it when listening the his new Saucers band!!
                        And I love listening to Rick, with and without the Floyd. He made such wonderful music, you can hear he was very talented and that he absolutely loved making music. It's sad that he didn't release more solo albums
                        I love Syds work in the early days of Pink Floyd and his solo work. He had a very different approach which I always found very inspiring!

                        I don't understand why so many spend to much energy on the stupid David vs. Roger argument when they can instead enjoy all the great music they made and are still making.
                        Of course not everything they do is for everyone, that's not possible. But I don't get the constant need to spread all the negativity. That's not the purpose.

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Originally posted by Sydzappa View Post
                          ...and pineapple on my pizza. Any one that has them any other way clearly doesn't like food.
                          Forget Roger vs Dave, are you trying to get this thread shut down? 😄
                          For every mile of road, there's two miles of ditch. Three if you're on the Interstate. - Derek Bieri, Vice Grip Garage

                          PF - April 18, 1988, Denver
                          PF - June 22, 1994, Minneapolis
                          Rog - July 16, 2017, Atlanta (Taped)
                          Rog - Aug 20, 2022, Atlanta (Taped)
                          Nick - March 29, 2019, Atlanta (Taped)

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Originally posted by j.vavala513@gmail.com View Post
                            I
                            I often read comments deriding Roger talking about how David played all these Bass parts because Roger couldn’t.
                            I think a lot of that is driven by David’s interview from the 1990’s where he talks about half the bass being him. I’d say that Roger doesn’t do himself any favors when he lets others play bass for him at his concerts.

                            I have no idea who played exactly what on each song but they produced some amazing stuff.

                            Comment


                            • ILuvHoney
                              ILuvHoney commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Well, Gilmour got Snowy White to play his solo on Have a Cigar in 1977, Tim Renwick to play his solo on Learning to Fly in 1987-1994 etc.
                              I am just mentioning it. Yet nobody ever tries to argue that this is "proof" that Gilmour can't play guitar.
                          Working...
                          X