Why is (or isn't) Tigers in The Final Cut?

[Grilo do Demo]

I have a question I haven't yet found an answer for. Or rather, I seem to have contradictory answers.

I understand that "When the Tigers Broke Free" was not included in the Wall because it was too personal. That part is clear.
It became a "Spare Brick" to be included in the next album.
But the Falklands War happened and Roger decided to expand on the war concept.

Then more songs were written and Tigers no longer fit too comfortably. Is this correct?
But 20 years later the song was still practically unreleased and Roger needed to include it somewhere and chose a forced spot in this album? Maybe?
It just surprises me that at some point it wasn't deemed appropriate for inclusion, but then it suddenly was.

Does anyone have better information than my guesses and doubtful facts?

[voices2010]

Tigers was written until 1982 for the film The Wall. In fact, most of the songs on Final Cut were written up until that year. many claim that they are songs left over from the wall sessions... but fortunately vernon fitch's excellent book reveals something very different.

[Grilo do Demo]

Oh, does it? What does it reveal?

[A Prick Like You]

Can't find it now, but the actual position of Tigers on the reissue of The Final Cut CD came about after James Guthrie created a reference CD with the song placed at multiple points in the album (i.e. track 1, then again at track 4, or track 7 or whatever). Roger Waters relayed a story that he thought Guthrie had made a mistake until he realised it was done deliberately so he could determine where it fit best on the album without having to reprogram it.

For me, I don't think it needs to be on there. Definitely prefer the album without it.

[keleven]

It fits very well in the Wall but totally ruins the flow of the Final Cut. I hate that they put it there. The mystery to me has always been the title track of the Final Cut. The lyrics clearly make it a better fit for the Wall than TFC but I've never seen anything to indicate it was written during the Wall period.

[DaveTheRave]

It fits very well in the Wall but totally ruins the flow of the Final Cut. I hate that they put it there. The mystery to me has always been the title track of the Final Cut. The lyrics clearly make it a better fit for the Wall than TFC but I've never seen anything to indicate it was written during the Wall period.

The music from the title track could have been used as an alternate version of CN. Listen to the middle part with the orchestra.

[Grilo do Demo]

The mystery to me has always been the title track of the Final Cut. The lyrics clearly make it a better fit for the Wall than TFC but I've never seen anything to indicate it was written during the Wall period.

Wikpedia says: "Five other tracks not used on The Wall ("Your Possible Pasts", "One of the Few", "The Final Cut", "The Fletcher Memorial Home", and "The Hero's Return") had been set aside for Spare Bricks."

Mark Blake's biography mentions the same except "Fletcher". Both quote David being unhappy with the decision of recycling.

Can't find it now, but the actual position of Tigers on the reissue of The Final Cut CD came about after James Guthrie created a reference CD with the song placed at multiple points in the album (i.e. track 1, then again at track 4, or track 7 or whatever). Roger Waters relayed a story that he thought Guthrie had made a mistake until he realised it was done deliberately so he could determine where it fit best on the album without having to reprogram it.

That's right! I found the quote in an interview with Uncut from 2004 and it says exactly that. Thank you!

[}{eywood]

I agree it doesn't fit on TFC. The production doesn't match at all. The lyrical point of view doesn't fit with the character of the old man whose POV we are sharing on TFC; Tigers seems to come from a younger man still affected by the loss, not a melancholy old man looking back on life. However the main problem with Tigers is the 1st verse and the following verses tell different parts of the story from different perspectives. One is an as it happens description of the battle told by a mysterious 3rd person narrator, the rest a child explaining in first person POV many years later how it affected him. For this to work in TFC the first verse should go before Gunner's Dream (which is also told from mysterious 3rd person POV), then Gunners, then the remainder of the song, then Hero's Return reprise. Why does no one complain about them never sequencing the reprise of Hero's Return into the remaster? This is far more essential than Tigers.

[Son of Nothing]

Why does no one complain about them never sequencing the reprise of Hero's Return into the remaster?

Good point. That's a far more obvious piece to add in to a CD reissue. I've often wondered about this omission myself. Presumably it was cut from the original vinyl for reasons of space.

(The fact that this is the only song on the entire album that I vaguely like clearly should bear no weight in this discussion. 😉)

[keleven]

Why does no one complain about them never sequencing the reprise of Hero's Return into the remaster? This is far more essential than Tigers.

This plus never getting the original mix of the Wall before they cut it down to LP length is so irritating. We've been past LPs for 40 years!

[Grilo do Demo]

Thank you guys for pointing out that Hero's Return reprise, I had no idea it existed. I have just found it and I agree that it makes more sense than Tigers. It goes a bit deeper into the character of the teacher.

[DesertRat]

Wow, I never knew about the Hero’s Return part II either - every time I think I’ve heard everything something new (to me) crops up

[keleven]

It's a great little minute and a half. I find it works better as an extra verse of the song than as a reprise though.

[thebelgiangnome]

Where can we find it ?

[Son of Nothing]

Where can we find it ?

I'm not sure if it's shareable here, but it's on A Tree Full of Secrets. That's where I heard it.