Is Roger a good bassist?

[Son of Nothing]

When I saw the title of this thread, I was planning what I would write in response. But MrFender, Alanko, vince666 and keleven have all pretty much made the points I was going to make. Particularly the simplification of his lines after the early 70s plus the "it fits the Floyd vibes" parts. If Chris Squire and Bill Bruford had replaced Rog and Nick respectively, then the end result would be unrecognisable as Floyd. Not everything has to be frigging ornate and busy.

But in my personal opinion, Roger's bass playing has gotten less interesting to me in his later works. In fact I had started to form a low opinion of his capabilities and was somewhat surprised when I revisited the earlier years and especially the live playing how interesting his playing was.

The Guy Pratt argument is interesting. I do find his Floyd work in the 80s and 90s really jarring. But has he reigned himself in for his work with Saucers? Somehow that seems less jarring to me.

[NuffM]

But in my personal opinion, Roger's bass playing has gotten less interesting to me in his later works. In fact I had started to form a low opinion of his capabilities and was somewhat surprised when I revisited the earlier years and especially the live playing how interesting his playing was.

Roger objectively got lazier after the NA 75 tour. Some things he played in that time were a little watered down a bit already but by 77, he really wanted to play shit that wasn't bass. I mean, the only track he plays bass on, on Animals, is Dogs. Which by the way, is a very very good bass song, which means he kept his signature style, but David did the other tracks. And then Roger did acoustic on two songs. And then by The Wall, well...he barely played bass on any of the tracks on the record, most of them were David again, and then when they did the live shows, Roger only played bass for Thin Ice, Brick 1, Happiest Days/Brick 2, Young Lust, the second half of Last Few Bricks (talking about the common versions, not the famous jams from L.A.) Flesh 2 and Run Like Hell. But EVEN THEN, he couldn't play Thin Ice like it was recorded, and some of the licks in Young Lust he couldn't play. Of course he also played acoustic on a song and then clarinet, but for the rest of the show, he didn't really touch any instruments. I'm not even sure what he did on The Final Cut (except for acoustic stuff) but I can't imagine he did more than he did on The Wall.

Nowadays on tour, he not only doesn't really play bass on stage (Gus is the one doing it), but everytime he holds his fucking Strat, he mostly just plays root notes as if he was on bass. So, WHY NOT JUST USE YOUR BASS? Most of the time he's even holding a damn instrument, he stops playing just to raise his arms anyway. It's really aggravating to watch sometimes.

In my opinion, Roger's greatest years as a bassist was from the 60s to about 1974. He still had some very cool things in 1975 concerts, and the bass in Have A Cigar on the record is amazing, as well as what he did for Dogs, of course. But generally, he got lazier and lazier over the years and I think at some point he got tired of playing bass. He was a guitarist before he was a bassist, so it's understandable in that regard, but it feels like he just handed it over to David at one point. Which, by the way, the things that David recorded on bass are almost all superior to anything Roger recorded.

Again, this is mostly my opinion, so try to not take it too seriously!! 👍

[DogsOnTheWingParts1-9]

Little side note, didn't Roger use an envelope filter for Young Lust live? I know there's one on the band demo of the song but I don't remember live

[Johnny Higgins]

I'd say that modern Roger is more of a stage actor than a stage musician. Because if you actually watch any footage of him holding a Bass or Strat during the TINAD tour its quite obvious he isn't playing anything lol, his instruments are more to make him look less awkward on stage than it is to actually add anything to the compositions.

[Journey Man]

Yes, although it’s probably fair to say that Roger is the second best bass player in Pink Floyd. Whilst it’s widely known David played bass on Pigs 3DO, Sheep, Hey You, he's stated that much more bass on the albums was played by him. See second question from this 1992 interview.
https://pfco.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/...djg/djg92.html

But nevertheless, Roger's live bass performances speak for themselves and are unique.

[Demamo]

Personally, I feel like it's probably Dave playing bass on Fat Old Sun, Summer 68, Stay, Wots the Deal, and a few others. Is Roger a good bassist. Eh. He's the right bassist for the Floyd, but he's not that great. He's a great songwriter and riffmeister though.

[daemonspudguy]

It's 100% Dave on Fat Old Sun because everything except the organ on that song was Dave, which is one of the reasons the drums in particular are pretty sloppy.

[vince666]

The Guy Pratt argument is interesting. I do find his Floyd work in the 80s and 90s really jarring. But has he reigned himself in for his work with Saucers? Somehow that seems less jarring to me.

About Guy Pratt, i.e., I do like him a lot more in mid 80's in his previous band "icehouse" (Australian 80s rock/wave/pop band), where the bass was extremely important in the songs and Guy was able (and free?) to express himself just nicely, while literally leading the songs.
(i.e. check the album "measure for measure" by Icehouse from 1986 and you'll hear a truly nice work by Guy)

[TheGreenStrat]

I agree with everything everyone says above. Roger is secretly a melodic bassist which is especially apparent in their live shows 69-77 whether on The Embryo, Breathe, or Dogs. He also has a penchent for ascending and descending note runs on Echoes, Any Colour You Like, and Money. Famously his octave notes in Eugene, Sheep, and Funky Dung also separate him a bit from others who might embellish or play out more. What’s unique with his playing is there is a difference between what he played on record, and how it evolved live which is a treat for us fans. Plus his use of the phaser on the 75 and 77 tours give distinct era ear marks which is also another cool thing to notice (see Echoes crescendo before the final verse in 75 and the intro to Sheep in 75 and 77.). Despite the former, his most melodic and fanciful bass playing occurs all in 66-68 at his most McCartney which gets toned down the slower and more melodic/moody they get musical which, is oddly appropriate. No overplaying in the Floyd (from any of the members) that’s for sure! All of that combined with his laid back and slow approach makes him unique amongst bassists. Along with Nick’s drumming it’s one of the reasons why the Floyd’s style, sound, and mood is not recreatable or apeable by others. Rog is quite the secret bass hero .

[TheGreenStrat]

About Guy Pratt, i.e., I do like him a lot more in mid 80's in his previous band "icehouse" (Australian 80s rock/wave/pop band), where the bass was extremely important in the songs and Guy was able (and free?) to express himself just nicely, while literally leading the songs.
(i.e. check the album "measure for measure" by Icehouse from 1986 and you'll hear a truly nice work by Guy)

I believe Guy has a famous quote where he was playing/writing during the Division Bell sessions where David smiled and said “play 90% less of what you’re doing now” . No doubt chalked up to his excitement and session musician tendencies (not a bad thing at all since Guy is very good.) It also shows how you can replace Nick with Andy Newmark and Roger with Guy but the feel and such is unreplaceable.

[daemonspudguy]

One of the highlights of his playing in the latter days of Roger as captain of the Floydian ship iss probably the basslines for both In The Flesh songs.

[vince666]

I believe Guy has a famous quote where he was playing/writing during the Division Bell sessions where David smiled and said “play 90% less of what you’re doing now” .

Didn't know this one! LOL!!!

Indeed, I can easily imagine while it happened and the faces of both Dave and Guy!

Matter of fact, the best bass player who naturally fits perfectly with Dave is, in fact, just Roger... while Guy, being a 80s musician, was much more used to that kind of music which is based a lot just on the work of the bass player. (how many songs back in the 80s were actually built by starting just from the bass?)

All that said, even if I am mostly a guitar player (because I also play bass and a bit of piano/keyboards), I was always happy to be a guitarist in a band where the bass player was a good one who made a work which actually leaded the songs, which helped me in making different things because there was just the bass to keep the whole thing together just nicely.
After all, I am a typical 80s musician myself as well, and I do consider the bass like something which can change a song for the better or for the worse, then I prefer when it changes it for the better... and in my own only experience into a band as a bass player, of course, I tried to lead the songs and provide a solid bass work and, luckily, the guy on the guitar was pleased and he didn't tell me to play 90% less than how I was doing or, say, to turn the volume of my bass down a bit.

[buffalofloyd]

I would put Roger, and Nick for that matter, in the class of musicians who made the most out of their talent for the band they were in. I don't think either one would be considered remarkable outside of Pink Floyd. As the rhythm section, if they had been more "technical", I don't think the band would've sounded as good. This in no way means they are not good.

I know this is supposed to be about Roger but I think of DSotM as an example. Nicks drumming on the album could not have been more perfect for what the album required. His drumming was very concise, no frills and spacious, leaving room for mostly David and Rick to paint the walls with sound while Roger finishes the trim with his lyrics.

All of this is to say that each member is irreplaceable in Pink Floyd, IMO.

[YASHA]

All of this is to say that each member is irreplaceable in Pink Floyd, IMO.

Decades pass, but based on the results of many topics and discussions, we come to this and the only correct conclusion

[daemonspudguy]

I should mention that while I do think Roger is a decent enough bassist, he is certainly no John Wetton or Tony Levin.

[Alanko]

You can kind of hear this on live recordings when they would play songs like Cymbaline. He kind of played in front of the others, a bit like a lead instrument.

A good example of that is the version from Plumpton. Roger chucks down a lump of tar on each chord in the choruses. A really heavy handed approach that makes the choruses sound far heavier than the versus. In doing so he's pushing the tempo quite aggressively. His tone is quite overdriven and he adds those swerving glissando sweeps up and down the fretboard prior to the next note. A very strident approach to the music!

https://youtu.be/B_C1_JrOLsk

[ammoj2]

Roger objectively got lazier after the NA 75 tour. Some things he played in that time were a little watered down a bit already but by 77, he really wanted to play shit that wasn't bass. I mean, the only track he plays bass on, on Animals, is Dogs. Which by the way, is a very very good bass song, which means he kept his signature style, but David did the other tracks. And then Roger did acoustic on two songs. And then by The Wall, well...he barely played bass on any of the tracks on the record, most of them were David again, and then when they did the live shows, Roger only played bass for Thin Ice, Brick 1, Happiest Days/Brick 2, Young Lust, the second half of Last Few Bricks (talking about the common versions, not the famous jams from L.A.) Flesh 2 and Run Like Hell. But EVEN THEN, he couldn't play Thin Ice like it was recorded, and some of the licks in Young Lust he couldn't play. Of course he also played acoustic on a song and then clarinet, but for the rest of the show, he didn't really touch any instruments. I'm not even sure what he did on The Final Cut (except for acoustic stuff) but I can't imagine he did more than he did on The Wall.

Nowadays on tour, he not only doesn't really play bass on stage (Gus is the one doing it), but everytime he holds his fucking Strat, he mostly just plays root notes as if he was on bass. So, WHY NOT JUST USE YOUR BASS? Most of the time he's even holding a damn instrument, he stops playing just to raise his arms anyway. It's really aggravating to watch sometimes.

In my opinion, Roger's greatest years as a bassist was from the 60s to about 1974. He still had some very cool things in 1975 concerts, and the bass in Have A Cigar on the record is amazing, as well as what he did for Dogs, of course. But generally, he got lazier and lazier over the years and I think at some point he got tired of playing bass. He was a guitarist before he was a bassist, so it's understandable in that regard, but it feels like he just handed it over to David at one point. Which, by the way, the things that David recorded on bass are almost all superior to anything Roger recorded.

Again, this is mostly my opinion, so try to not take it too seriously!! 👍

I pretty much agree with this, but let's not forget that Roger still wrote the bass line for Sheep which was performed live many times from 1974-1975. David just recreated Roger's part in the studio, probably because he could record it cleanly and quickly.

[Anredeon]

I always thought Rogers bass line to sheep was influenced by locomotive breath.

[daemonspudguy]

That's not actually why, according to Dave. Apparently on the day they were recording the backing track for Sheep, Roger had a rhythm guitar part he wanted to play, so they switched instruments.

[H.Timseel]

Just listen to live 1974 recordings ...case closed, effin awesome. No one plays like him.. Cymbaline, Embryo, Breathe, all perfect..

[Blackstrat]

A good example of that is the version from Plumpton. Roger chucks down a lump of tar on each chord in the choruses. A really heavy handed approach that makes the choruses sound far heavier than the versus. In doing so he's pushing the tempo quite aggressively. His tone is quite overdriven and he adds those swerving glissando sweeps up and down the fretboard prior to the next note. A very strident approach to the music!

https://youtu.be/B_C1_JrOLsk

yes - I agree, while he was never the most technically accomplished bassist, what he really did do was arrange and drive the dynamics of the performances by pushing and pulling the beat, by getting louder and quieter, being theatrical where necessary and pretty much steering the direction, leaving Gilmour and Wright free to do the nice melodic stuff. He was always asserting himself in the live mix! interestingly he was using 4x12 Wem cabs by the 70s too, to really punch through rather than just being an ill defined low end rumble.

In answer to the people who reckon he got lazier and less involved in the bass as time went on, I wonder if it was the lack of improvisation after 1972-1973 and finally dropping the jams from the set that made him less interested, as he was able to have less immediate influence and lead the performances. The classic Waters baseline is CWTAE - it's just two notes, but he absolutely dictates how the song goes from the first note to the last. For a post-Waters PF jam you only have to look at the Endless River, which admittedly is decades later, to hear much less dynamics and direction.

[TheGreenStrat]

Rogers sense of leadership, direction, and dynamics is really on full display at their peak live especially with the jammier songs. Even DSOTM live would change each year it was performed where multiple songs fluctuated with each tour in how they would develop and stretch i.e, Money/Any Colour in 73 vs 75 etc.