the song Moonhead

[CosmicWanderer]

I could be wrong, but aren't all versions of Moonhead taken from home recordings. I recall one sounding a bit dark, with some room ambience evident. I assume it was recorded with a mic set up pointing at a TV speaker?

i wouldn't be surprised with the bbc losing so much stuff from the 60's because they didn't think to keep the tapes, ffs.

[CosmicWanderer]

I've completed all of the Prof stoned/Hallucination BBC sessions to have All PF BBC sessions remixed in stereo. It's up to 41 songs 1967-1971

awesome, can't wait to hear them

[David S CA]

Thanks for pointing out the article. "Moonhead" is one of my favorites. Awesome that the Atlantic author gave the song some loving attention 50 years on.

[David S CA]

Here is a new stereo mix I did of Moonhead with the version Prof Stoned just put out, It turned out pretty well, his version was pretty clean and I was able to extract enough stems to create a realistic stereo image out of it.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao1OYH3FKarBnIsU...TA?e=JDrdz9

Thanks for posting your stereo mix of Prof Stone's much-improved mono remaster. It's fantastic that there is more space and separation around the instruments. It all sounds much clearer and less compressed than the previously available versions. I'm excited to hear what you can do for the rest of the BBC recordings.

[Frankymole]

i wouldn't be surprised with the bbc losing so much stuff from the 60's because they didn't think to keep the tapes, ffs.

I think they were still using transcription disks (see Fat Old Sun and Embryo).

[swanlee]

I'm now going over each track of the 41 BBC tracks and refining them, it should be within the next 2 weeks or less that I will be happy with the results and will post them here. Right now I'm super happy with 95% of the songs and just working on that last 5% that require a little more tweaking and care and then once I'm happy with all of the songs I will go over them again as a collection to make sure I did not miss or screw up anything.

I'll post a link to them from my one drive in this thread and in the main Forum for DL's.

My goal with the BBC tracks is to be able to listen from start to finish, all of them will be remixed in real stereo, cleaned up and presented in near Studio quality with only a few minor exceptions but those non perfect tracks will still be in better shape then previous releases. To often with the BBC tracks you get in a groove listening and then you hit a track that is just horribly downgraded and it kills the flow. I want them all to be enjoyable to listen to and sound like actual dynamic music instead of sounding like something that came from a dictation recording machine from the 1960's,

When I was a teen in the 1980's I bought one of my first bootleg CD's that was the early BBC sessions, I was so excited that all these early tracks were on CD and I thought I hit the motherload, I got home and was horrified by how bad it sounded, barely sounded like anything containing music. From that point I always dreamed about the PF BBC sessions showing up in perfect studio quality and in stereo as I really dislike mono. Well 35 years later and with advent of modern AI technology and the effort from many like Prof Stoned and Hallucination that dream is almost complete.

Of course most of the credit goes to Prof Stoned and Hallucination for their work in compiling this great list of upgraded BBC tracks that gave a great foundation for remixing them.

[CosmicWanderer]

I think they were still using transcription disks (see Fat Old Sun and Embryo).

yeah but not for random shows like the moon landing

[profstoned]

I'm now going over each track of the 41 BBC tracks and refining them, it should be within the next 2 weeks or less that I will be happy with the results and will post them here.

Obviously I can't stop you but I really wish you wouldn't use my work as your foundation. I mean, 98% of the sources I used to work with are out there. Why not do your own mastering? I think it's kind of disrespectful to take my work, alter it and then share that. I love what stereo extraction can do for us (I actually used it for BBC Session) but I am also very critical of its side effects and these are easily heard when one takes mono recording and turns them into wide stereo. So please, try and reconsider your stance.

[swanlee]

Obviously I can't stop you but I really wish you wouldn't use my work as your foundation. I mean, 98% of the sources I used to work with are out there. Why not do your own mastering? I think it's kind of disrespectful to take my work, alter it and then share that. I love what stereo extraction can do for us (I actually used it for BBC Session) but I am also very critical of its side effects and these are easily heard when one takes mono recording and turns them into wide stereo. So please, try and reconsider your stance.

OK, I'll just keep it to myself then, I honestly think people would enjoy a stereo remix of this stuff, this is not old school reverb being applied the Audio stems being extracted are discrete instrument/Vocal tracks that are remixed in real stereo, You know this as you've done this with Piper, they are not a fake stereo parlor trick or anything of the sort. And while yes I'm using your release as a base although not every track is from your set, it is a great one stop shop for clean BBC sessions, I am making some really good improvements if you happen to not like mono recordings or just want to hear more separation of the instruments and the end results sound nothing like your release. I doubt anyone could even tell what source is being used they sound so different. But I do not want to ruffle any feathers, I'm going to finish it for my own listening enjoyment sorry if I offended you on this.

I have been doing audio remastering for 35 + years even before PC remastering was even possible, using multiple Physical EQ's for filtering and recoding it to hi fi VHS tapes and I tend to just do it for my own listening then got into PC audio remastering in the mid 90's when everything was new and nearly EVERY time I want to share this stuff only for the benefit of others it ends in drama, I actually submitted a ton of stuff that ended up in the 1st edition "Have You Got it Yet" box set put out in the late 90's early 2000's by some older Yahoo based Syd group at the time, I literally gave them a decades worth of remasters for free which at that time had never seen the light of day and did not seek any credit for it and STILL it ended up in drama and BS, I tend to never take credit and don't even trade this stuff I just try and give it out once I'm done it seems to cause issues and miff people, this also ended up being a big ordeal over on Y recently with the BBC sessions and was probably the last straw that prompted TJ to shut it down, these BBC tracks really seem to bring out the drama in people.

I tried to be nice and give full credit where credit is due in my post about putting these remixes out and you and Hallucination did alot of great work to bring these to light and get them out where others are still hoarding them, but as a reminder to all, this is a hobby, this material is not owned by anyone accept maybe the band which they do not seem to care about anymore and really I think people should stop trying to garner ownership and or a cache of credit for things like this. It's better to just put out everything and relinquish any idea's of ownership for material that is not owned by really anyone and is performed by someone else and let people enjoy it, most PF fans are getting on in years and the Band is probably completely done with Archive releases after this Dakrside 50th, their really is not much need to hold anything back now especially with the latest advancements in AI tech which make this stuff possible.

Sad I won't share them here but I'm thankful I will have the complete BBC sessions mixed in stereo in near perfect condition which is something I thought I would never have.

Honestly could anyone really tell where this source came from? It does not really sound like anything from your set I'm just using it as a base because you did a great job of cleaning them up and or getting a new cleaner source. I don't think anyone has heard the BBC version of Scarecrow or Flaming sound like this.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao1OYH3FKarBnItRZIznAmHuAWxyuA?e=fAaAGZ

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao1OYH3FKarBnItSp-7kJ4k3Uy3MZA?e=5ZDjUw

[Rex]

I personally would love to hear them in stereo, as long as they are done well by a dedicated ear of course.

I agree that they would have sounded way different in the room and would be curious as to what that might have sounded like. Also agree with most of your points about sharing and ownership, never understood the hoarders that hold onto rare reels, works of art or historical artefacts.

Sorry that the reaction that you have received & I hope you carry on regardless.
Chin up.
Rex.

[Hallucalation]

OK, I'll just keep it to myself then, I honestly think people would enjoy a stereo remix of this stuff, this is not old school reverb being applied the Audio stems being extracted are discrete instrument/Vocal tracks that are remixed in real stereo, You know this as you've done this with Piper, they are not a fake stereo parlor trick or anything of the sort. And while yes I'm using your release as a base although not every track is from your set, it is a great one stop shop for clean BBC sessions, I am making some really good improvements if you happen to not like mono recordings or just want to hear more separation of the instruments and the end results sound nothing like your release. I doubt anyone could even tell what source is being used they sound so different. But I do not want to ruffle any feathers, I'm going to finish it for my own listening enjoyment sorry if I offended you on this.

Sorry but this is exactly what i had heard with BBC 1967 off-air tracks you send me on Yeeshkul forum before new version was released. It was no different than old duophonic recordings from 60s. Excessive reverb, unnatural sound on everything and robotic effect on voice. Original mono recordings sounds way superior to this digital "extractions".

Please respect our work, it is meant to be enjoyed in the way it is released.

[Rex]

Thank you (and Prof Stoned) so much for your work in bringing this together, it is a glorious body of work. I intend to enjoy it as you released it for decades to come (hopefully), I think that you're maybe being a little harsh here, you have shared it to the world and technically any idiot with a d/l link can now bastardize your release, I personally would encourage someone within this community to do it, you'd have real time feedback at least. Would be curious to hear what Swanlee can do and I would ideally want him to use the best available source as a base to create something new.

Just tryin' to add a little balance,
Kind regards
Rex

[swanlee]

Sorry but this is exactly what i had heard with BBC 1967 off-air tracks you send me on Yeeshkul forum before new version was released. It was no different than old duophonic recordings from 60s. Excessive reverb, unnatural sound on everything and robotic effect on voice. Original mono recordings sounds way superior to this digital "extractions".

Please respect our work, it is meant to be enjoyed in the way it is released.

I did not use an ounce of reverb in these, I simply extracted stems from these and remixed them in stereo,

To me mono sounds nothing like actual music, live music like these sessions would not sound like mono if you were in the sessions, live music has instrument placement, decay, spatial queues, directional impact, these mono recordings are great to start with as they are clean and easy to manipulate but they sound nothing like what these sessions sounded like if you were actually in the room during them.

But yea fine, I'm done trying to share stuff, going back to doing this all for my own listening,

[Alanko]

Taking a ropey mono source, using some dodgy machine learning algorithm to extract 'stems' and then remixing it into stereo sounds like the definition of a parlour trick. Like colorised footage, I've never heard any amateur production of stereo remixed audio that crossed the uncanny valley without digital artefacts or slush. YouTube is full of many attempts but I assume only Peter Jackson, Giles Martin et al pay for high quality applications that make it sound plausible.

I like the early BBC stuff in mono as this was exactly how it was heard by the audience the first time.

[swanlee]

Taking a ropey mono source, using some dodgy machine learning algorithm to extract 'stems' and then remixing it into stereo sounds like the definition of a parlour trick. Like colorised footage, I've never heard any amateur production of stereo remixed audio that crossed the uncanny valley without digital artefacts or slush. YouTube is full of many attempts but I assume only Peter Jackson, Giles Martin et al pay for high quality applications that make it sound plausible.

I like the early BBC stuff in mono as this was exactly how it was heard by the audience the first time.

That's great for you, I'm not going to post them here nor will I post them in a public forum/tracker I'm not going to step on toes if these really bother some people that they exist, it's not like other versions of these would be ruined or take away the efforts of others, we have about a billion horrible versions of these tracks already floating around for decades, I do not see why we can't have other options for people that would prefer something other then mono given the newer technology able to handle them. It's not like I was presenting this as some official release superseding any other releases or attempts. It was just a simple experiment using newer tech to see how they turned out that I wanted to share with probably a few hundred people on this site and see what they thought. Sharing and being open and trying new things have lead to ALOT of new and great audio discoveries over the years I was just trying to contribute to that in a small way.

Even upgraded some of these tracks still sound bad and lo fi compared to proper recordings of the time, so I just fail to see the need to stay purist with these, the sound quality had more to do with bad decisions by the BBC rather then some artistic choice by PF themselves.

I do not know why these BBC tracks bring out this type of attitude and crazyiness I'm befuddled that EVERY time the BBC sessions come up this tends to happen, new tweaks to these will not delete previous versions from existence, but whatever I'll go back to just doing them for myself, I tried to share and be open and spread these for anyone that wanted them but I'll go back underground now. For me anyway I can check off "Good quality Stereo BBC sessions" from my own list of holy grails, this for me has been 35 + years in the making and I do thank Hallucination and Prof Stone for putting these out as I'm aware some wanted to stifle that release as well.

[Hallucalation]

Why this thread again becoming like old BBC thread on Yeeshkul? We get your point that you don't like mono, let's move on out of this! No need to repeatedly force yourself on people with your demixing stuff or hoarder talk. We got your point, ok?

[aybesea]

Alright guys, let's keep it civil. I'm seeing a lot of upset people, but honestly it seems like we are talking about a remaster here (a different kind sure), and we've always had remasters. The only issue here is whether the source material (BBC) is legal or not. And always remember, just because something gets posted doesn't mean that anyone has to download it.

So, either play nice, or take it elsewhere.